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Which Central American Country Is Best to Retire To?
Panama 45%  45%  [ 25 ]
Costa Rica 55%  55%  [ 30 ]
Total votes : 55
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:24 pm 
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Not knowing what you are looking for, but in Panama Las Tablas, on the Azuero Peninsula one can live all in for $ 1,000.00. Living there is more remote, but with all the ex-pat benefits of Panama.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:29 pm 
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Location: NFM--Geezers, cowpokes and the working poor--yeeha!
Bro BlueDevil mentioned FATCA--this can be a factor anywhere you live. Here's more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Ac ... liance_Act

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:40 pm 
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Netgems wrote:
Panama seems to attract more retiree married couples, it does not have the out in the open gringo gulch and the accompanying debauchery and plethora of MP's like CR. I've heard Panama is more expensive. Don'r rule out up and coming Nicaragua, been hearing good things about Grenada. 8)

Very close friends are moving to Grenada, Nicaragua from Austin, Texas this week. From everything I've seen and read about Grenada, I'd last about a week or two before I became bored to death.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:46 pm 
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BlueDevil wrote:
bandon843 wrote:
BlueDevil wrote:
I live in Colombia, but thought about living in CR before "discovering" Colombia. I've made a couple trips to Panama, and my previous trip was just last month. P4P in Panama City is more expensive than the gulch, but once you get out of the city, you can find much less expensive options. I think Panama treats ex-pats better than CR, cost of living is less than CR but more expensive than Colombia, and the overall infrastructure of Panama is superior to CR and Colombia. There is no need to worry about foreign currency fluctuations as the official currency is the US $. For single or married retiree, I believe Panama is a much better choice than CR.


How about Colombia vs. CR or Panama? Where in Colombia are you...there are big differences between cities (Bogota, Medellin, Cali, Cartagena, etc.) Why did you chose your current location vs. CR?


That question can be addressed from so many different angles. :wink: First, from the cost perspective. When I moved to Colombia, the peso was strong, and I was getting about 1800 - 1900 to the dollar. So far this year, the peso has weakened, and I've received as much as 2600 pesos for my dollar. That's a nice pay raise for someone living on a fixed income. Even without the strong dollar, Colombia is still less expensive than Panama and CR.

Colombia is still ex-pat friendly, but is getting more like CR in its attitude towards ex-pats. When I first received my residency, I was greeted with open arms, a 5-year tax moratorium and other perks. Since that time, Colombia has raised the visa fees and done away with the "permanent" permanent residency... and now has to be renewed every 5 years. Colombia has also tightened up on its taxation of income and assets owned by foreigners in Colombia, and is playing ball with the US with respect to FATCA reporting. Colombia keeps tight control over its ex-pat population, and will not hesitate to "bounce" someone perceived as a bad actor with no explanation. Panama, as far as I know, is still relatively immigrant friendly, and even offers incentives to retirees.

As far as things to do, landscape and natural beauty, I think all 3 countries are neck to neck in that area. Colombia has a developing tourist infrastructure, but has a ways to go to catch up to CR and Panama. For me, Panama is a little bit too hot for living there full-time, CR is OK with respect to climate, but living in the Medellin area is perfect. I live in one of the municipalities near Medellin, and can expect temperatures that go as low as 50s during the night and the high 70s or low 80s during the day. We get our share of rain during the months of April, October and November. Paisas have a narrow band of climate comfort ranging from 72 to 82 degrees F. When it's lower than 72, the paisas are wearing mufflers and mittens, and when it is warmer than 82 degrees... they are fanning themselves and saying "uff." :wink: Other parts of Colombia are very hot like the northern and Pacific coasts and some of the interior departments like Tolima. As far as traffic goes, San Jose is a much more enjoyable city to be driving in than say Bogota, Medellin or Panama City. Traffic has gotten progressively worse in Medellin since I first arrived 7 1/2 years ago. The traffic in Bogota is obscene. Panama has excellent national highways, but the urban roadways suck. Costa Rican roads have come a long way in the past 10 years with the new highway to the Pacific coast and much less potholes than before. Colombian highways are OK, but tolls are expensive and urban roadways and intersections are poorly designed.

So far, I've been pleased with my Colombian EPS (HMO-style healthplan) which provides me with doctor/specialists visits, diagnostics and lab work, hospitalization, pharmacy and dental for $30 per month. There are many state of the art medical facilities throughout the major cities in Colombia. I also have Medicare and Blue Cross/Blue Shield as back-up in the States. From my limited experience with CR healthcare, it looks like healthcare in CR is good as well... and more attuned to the needs of foreign immigrants and visitors (as long as you have the money). I have no experience with Panama healthcare.

Real Estate prices in Medellin are on the rise if buying, but rents are still a bargain. If you stay out of Poblado, you can find nice 2 - 3 BR apartments in an upper estrato for less than $600 per month. My utilities for a 3 BR apartment run about $120 per month at the current USD/COP exchange rate. The options for ex-pat living has spreading to areas outside of Poblado for the past year or so. Even the couple of gringo-owned realties in Medellin are now pushing properties outside of Poblado. We looked at similar properties in Panama, and rents were considerably higher. If living in Panama, I would choose one of the old canal worker communities to live between Miraflores and Gamboa, and would avoid living in the Panama City... just my humble opinion. After the market adjustment, you may be able to find some bargains in CR if buying.

Colombia is a mosaic of a number of different regions and cultures... each with its own unique geography, ethnicity and cultures. To a lesser degree, Costa Rica is the same. I prefer the Medellin area to other cities like Bogota, Barranquilla, Cartagena and Santa Marta, but would consider living in any of the coffee axis cities like Manizales, Pereira or Armenia. There are other regions in Colombia that I would avoid for security regions. If I were to live in Costa Rica, I would most likely select Perez Zeledon or the area around San Ramon.

I could on and on about the pros and cons of where to live in retirement. But so far, I am happy living in Colombia, and would choose it over Panama and Costa Rica for my retirement home.


BlueDevil,

What a breath of fresh air! An excellent, well written and very informative post…full of valuable insight from someone who is actually living the experience he is talking about.

Thank you very much for your contribution to the thread. IMHO, this is the type of posting that makes me want to be a member of this board! I am looking forward to my first mongering visit to MDE in early June. Appreciate all the background information on possible destinations to spend a longer "vacation" if not part-time residence for part of the year. Other than the bad security/safety rap MDE has, it is clearly a very attractive place to spend extended time and enjoy, not only our hobby, but the culture and natural beauty of the coffee lands.

Best to you!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:49 pm 
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On the subject of Colombia any thoughts or comments regarding Cartagena?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:05 pm 
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BondTrader wrote:
On the subject of Colombia any thoughts or comments regarding Cartagena?


Cartagena is a historic city, and an international tourist destination for both mongers and non-mongers alike. If the beach is your thing, I would drive 4 hours northeast and check out Santa Marta. Cartagena may be a fun place to visit, but I would not want to live there. The weather in Cartagena is hot and humid, the water is not potable, and costs are higher than most other parts of Colombia. Even though there are no beaches, my ideal spots in Colombia are Greater Medellin, Armenia, Manizales or Pereira.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 2:45 pm 
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Thanks Blue Devil...i agree, great post...!


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 2:57 pm 
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Hi Again and I really appreciate these posts.

I have two addidional questions:

1) One thing I really love about Costa Rica is the general sense of fraternity that exists among expatriate visitors (especially americans) I really love going into the Sportsmans Lodge or HDR or Jaco and immediatelly "fraternity" feel with a whole place full of mostly interesting americans/foreigners there for fun and sexual adventure. I love how easy it easy it is to meet people there (in the sportsman particularly but other places as well) Do they have similar places in Panama to the sportsmans lodge??? Is the feeling of fraternity there in Panama?

2) In costa rica i have noticed that the girls seem to genuinely love americans. Maybe this is i misinterpreted but in 3 visits there that's my general impression. I also think the costa rican people are very very nice in general and have pleasant dispositions. So if you had to generalize, how would you guys say the costa ricans compare with the panamanians...especially the women and their attraction to americans.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 3:40 pm 
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Ex-pats or expatriates are people who reside outside their country of citizenship. The Americans and other foreigners who come to visit Costa Rica and other countries are just "visitors" with no real ties to the country (eg. a resident visa) and stay there on a temporary basis.

I've visited Panama, but have never found a gringo-oriented hangout like Sportsmens Lodge. (But then again, I was not looking for a gringo hangout, either.)

I would say most Costa Rican women (ticas) like (and perhaps tolerate) Americans, and may be curious about them, but most will save their heart for a tico. Of course, the working girls in the gulch will act like they love Americans... that is part of their job. (Some are pretty damned good at it, too.)

Overall, my impression of ticos is favorably neutral. As a nationality, they really don't stand out in the world, but, like anywhere else in the world, you will find good ticos and even some water-walkers. Based upon my personal preferences and biases, I am more comfortable in the company of a tico than a Panamanian... but as they say, YMMV.


Last edited by BlueDevil on Sun May 10, 2015 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 9:12 am 
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BlueDevil wrote:
I would say most Costa Rican women (ticas) like (and perhaps tolerate) Americans, and may be curious about them, but most will save their heart for a tico.


+1

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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 12:34 am 
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Reviewing these posts (mostly BlueDevil's), there are some great perspectives here that I can only agree with. I think BlueDevil missed his calling as a travel writer or adviser. (Maybe he has a career I dont know about?).

As for gringos hanging out together in Panama...it tends to be a bit more isolated or spread out. And the expats in Panama tend to be a broader mix of Brits, Germans, French along with the obvious Canadians and USA folks. There is a large American Chamber and other groups in Panama...but they are mostly couples of business people involved and not very "monger friendly".

I don't think the Gringos in Colombia group like they do in CR. There is some of that in Parque Lleras Medellin...but it is nothing like the energy this board created in CR back in 2002 and 2003. And quite honestly, I selfishly hope that the same doesn't happen in Colombia...because there is so much going on and to experience in Colombia culturally besides just mongering or getting drunk/stoned...you really need to keep a balanced agenda to get the full benefit of traveling or living in Colombia. And like CR or Panama...if mongering gets too "out front" in the public...Colombia will just shut it down and make it move elsewhere. Just ask the guys at La Mansion/ Casa Blanca in Medellin.

While I no longer desire to live in CR again...I would still call San Jose the mongering capital of Latin America...primarily because of the combination of Sportsmens Lodge, the Delrey, the Key Largo and all the MPs scattered around the little area we call "Gringo Gulch",,,I just know of no focused area of quality and variety that measures up to the Gulch for pure mongering. If you go to Panama or Colombia...you have to go far and wide to find the same numbers of beautiful women and willing services.

Of course YMMV (your mileage may vary) as I have grown to appreciate the hunt in Colombia where things are a little more "hidden" or discreet. Bang for the "buck"...give me Colombia all night long. If I want small and manageable...and safe...I will take Panama City. Those of you thinking mongering in the interior of Panama is palatable...think again. I know some bored gringos living in Chorrera. Azuero, Boquete, David, etc...no comparison in my opinion to CR mongering or beaches as interior destinations. Just different.

And one final word on cost and easy retirement options. While Panamas "pensionado" program is still the best/easiest in Latin America for repatriating...the cost of living has almost tripled in the 9 years I have lived there. basically on a par with CR anymore though I think cars and such are still cheaper than CR. But food, service and beverage which most of us rely on for really living are on a par with American big cities now. The days of $1000 month living are gone as far as I am concerned...at least what I call living. The only good thing that has come down in Panama is hotel pricing since they have hugely overbuilt...and some dated properties like the Veneto Hotel/Casino are having to reduce rates significantly to survive. In fact, I recently heard a rumor they may sell or close the Veneto. Remember...just a rumor...but wouldn't surprise me. The casino there is mostly full of hookups more than gamers.

Ok...excuse my rambling...but just trying to add some perspectives to what our very capable BlueDevil has already shared.
Pura Vida...

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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 12:53 am 
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Great post Tman....would you care to expand on your comment about what happened @ Mansion in MDE. As far as I know, and based on the multiple recent postings on this board, it is the gateway for the newbie monger in Medellin.

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 1:04 am 
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I wont go into much detail primarily because I don't know a lot of them. But in general what I have heard is that they have been hassled by "authorities" to the extent that they had to change many policies and even the name in order to stay in business. There are guys on the ground in MDE that can give you more details though it doesnt really matter.

What matters is...mongering will always be attacked by the "general public" if it is too much "in the face" of the religious and political institutions. That is why CRT was originally produced to help GENTLEMEN know where to go for discrete, safe and quality fun WITHOUT any huge fanfare or publicity. For example, I cringe in Panama often because some of the guys I know who live or come there to monger start blathering in public settings about Habanos and the Veneto. When a wife or significant other is around...those are the last places you want mentioned or talked about. Loose lips sink ships...as the old saying goes.

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 3:38 am 
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OP, really? After 3 trips you are ready to retire there? Such a newbie way of thinking. You need to travel more before you decide.

My choice would be neither.

I have traveled extensively to Colombia and thought about retiring there after my first trip! I just discovered Thailand and I think that has bumped Colombia off my list of retirement places. It just made me realize, I need to discover more places!


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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 1:21 pm 
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Take a serious look at Ecuador especially the town of Cuenca also the capital Quito but Cuenca has been ranked the #1 city to retire to for expats.


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