www.CostaRicaTicas.com

On this point and as far as I'm concerned you are way off base. I've been involved with the culture outside the gulch for 20 years. Of course we see the reality, it's impossible to miss. Your quote about nothing changing until parents teach their Ch*ldren different is right on however. If the Tico parents would change what they teach their Ch*ldren the childlren would indeed have different lives. For the Ch*ldren that weren't taught that they would have the added responsibility to teach themselves these new values, but it's totally possible and really doesn't cost anything. The problem I think is that you and others on this board are a lot more troubled by THEIR poverty then they are. It's not a priority for them and they aren't uncomfortable enough to change.


I can't understand how you can make this assumption while knowing nothing about me. I have embraced the Latin culture for almost all of my adult life and have been in all parts of it including the worst of the worst neighborhoods. I lived for 6 months with a poor family in Venezuela and have many friends from the lower echelons.

WTF, there is no strange twist of fate. It's just detirmination and a desire for a better life. Ok let's take the example of the impoverished Tico(a) who can't read and has a family that doesn't care if they succeed or not and a government that is indifferent. They decide They are not happy the way things are and that THEY are going to do something about it. They then go to several different people and ask to borrow $.10 (although it's unlikely they wouldn't have $.30 no matter how poor they are). They go to an internet cafe and they look up one of the dozens of programs such as this http://worldteach.org/programs/costa_rica_summer/ that offer free English classes. While their friends are drinking at the bar or watching novellas they attent the classes and learn enough English for casual conversation. Once they have a little English under their belt they borrow $.35 from neighbors and friends and go back to the internet cafe and print up a little flyer that says "Foreign Homeowners are you frustrated trying to communicate with electricians, cleaners, plumbers, painters and getting charged Gringo rates? Email _____ and solve all your problems. Low rates and excellent service. They post this at places where foreign homeowners frequent. Boom!, they're in business. Total cost $.75.

The above is a very extreme example and most of Costa Rica's poor aren't that dire. Just go to the local bars on a Fri and watch how many Imperials those poor Costa Ricans are throwing back. Your line of thought is totally off and is disproven by the large numbers of locals who have raised themselves out of poverty. There are thousands of them who have siezed the initiative and changed their life and become prosperous. Yes, most will stay in poverty and there will be extreme poverty and blight, but if there is money around and not a legal caste system than whoever does things differently and seeks change has a pretty good chance of finding it. There is no legal caste system in Costa Rica and there is ALOT of money around. I have a Tico friend who gave me a book that he bought for $1.49 in a used book store: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scienc ... tting_Rich the he read and applied what he learned. From nothing he now has 5 cafes in San Jose that he distributes healthy products from. Please go to the Kiva site posted earlier and see what that's all about. That's the poorest of the poor- they don't put a dime up and get money and assistance to be in business- just need a desire to change things- don't even have to be literate.

While it's nice to have the government do those things, if they aren't being done it's the persons responsibility and option to do those things for themselves IF they WANT to change THEIR life. I'm sorry, unless there are laws in place to forbid people from teaching themselves to read or if there is an ordinance against starting a very small service business of your own for pennies AND as mentioned there is money around then there is not an excuse. Hard? yes, lots of work? yes, sacrifice? yes, delayed gratification, planning for the future? yes but most certainly not impossible or even improbable as in Costa Rica with the amount of services that are needed there by people with money.

Wow, you manged to target the one thing our government is supposed to do and has always done well. Can you really waste too much money on military spending ? Penny-wise and dollar-foolish comes to mind. Of course there will never be another Hitler, right ?

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* These are the "Good Ole Days". Enjoy Them.

* RENT but, "Don't Buy a Home in Costa Rica" until you have lived here for THREE years.

Lose the attitude. The waiter at Sodia Tapia brought my girl black-burnt cheese with her breakfast. When she asked for a different piece, she was told, thats how they prepare it there. I told them I would pay for another order and please fry that little piece of cheese half the (normal) amount of time. The waiter stood there and argued until we left. This is so common in Costa Rica.

These people don't want to learn. The attitude you get from the taxis is pretty much the National Sentiment. "I'll do it my way, don't wanna hear or learn anything else." They will smile but when you turn your back, they'll get you in a passive aggressive fashion.

These people don't want to learn. They would rather be poor.

When I got to CR, the saying, "I couldn't care less" came to a new meaning. This with laziness is why there are more poor here than we think and it will be exactly the same in 16 years from now. I used to say 20 but 4 have passed already.

_________________
* These are the "Good Ole Days". Enjoy Them.

* RENT but, "Don't Buy a Home in Costa Rica" until you have lived here for THREE years.

Off course you can waste too much money on military spending. A strong national defense is achieved by wise use of your financial resources not wasteful use of them.

Examples abound of how the U.S. Congress force programs on the Pentagon for the sole purpose of protecting job in their state or district. Just within the past few months Congress voted to build more fighter jets (sorry forget the exact F number) that the Air Force said it neither wants or needs. That is wasteful spending and bringing up the possibility of another Hitler at some point in the future does nothing to change that.

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Pura Vida
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four
essential food groups:
alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat.
Alex Levine

It worked well for the Soviet Union

They let their military spending bring the country down

BKTUNA/Boyd
I am never going home

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BKTUNA/Boyd
I am never going home

Good points made on both sides. There are opportunities if one cares to look for them. Such as the cleaning, gardening and translator but schooling in CR is poor at best and the skills of marketing and business are NOT taught in public schools.
But Bilko is correct the saturation point of not more work (for the 100's of thousands) can and will be reached at some point.

I think what is missing from both sides are any thoughts on the family dynamics which require one to support the lay-abouts of the family which in CR includes the extended family. This is a moral harzard problem similar to the NW Coast Indians. Why work when others are required/expected to support you?

If I may take this Thread out of argumentative mode for a moment (not that it hasn't been amusing)--Here are 2 joined ideas for small urban businesses with near-zero barriers to entry and minimal need for start-up capital: Gathering the used cooking fats and oils from restaurants for re-use as bio-fuels, and gathering the coffee grounds from those same restaurants for re-use as plant fertilizer.
NOTE: Neither one may be viable and a market for product may need to be built but these have worked in the US.
I had a buddy that 40 years ago made a good sideline business by going around to machine shops and small manufaturers, gathering metal shavings and small scrap--he'd gotten the idea because he was a machinist and saw that his shop wasn't doing much with this stuff. All you need is an idea and something of an entrepreneurial spirit. From what's said, this is not much in evidence in CR--the lack of stressors Brother BKTuna was talking about?

_________________
"A man accustomed to hear only the echo of his own sentiments, soon bars all the common avenues of delight, and has no part in the general gratification of mankind"--Dr. Johnson
"Amen, brother"-ED

Sorry, I don't agree that our government does and has always done well. If you go by the number of people killed, I guess we have done great. I won't get political here but state a simple fact. The USA spends more than every other country COMBINED on weapons, and still has a very small army. May I suggest a book? 'War is a Racket' by General Smedley Butler. In the event you aren't familiar with General Butler, he was (at the time of his death) the most decorated soldier in United States History. His tours of duty included time in Central America, by the way.

You can read it for free here:
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html

I don't see any point in continuing this on my end. Bilko over and out.

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"The only normal people are those you don't know very well." Joe Ancis

I won't respond to your last post as you seem to want to move toward politics.

We were discussing the poor in Costa Rica. That led to available jobs and possible opportunity.

Are there poor people in CR ? Yes. What can we do about it ? Not much. Is there much they can do about it ?
We seem to differ greatly in opinion.


Should we feel sorry for them? Why, they are usually voted the happiest people on the planet .

_________________
* These are the "Good Ole Days". Enjoy Them.

* RENT but, "Don't Buy a Home in Costa Rica" until you have lived here for THREE years.

from today's paper


30% Of Workers In Costa Rica Earn Less Than Minimum Salary

According to the Ministra de Trabajo (Labour ministry) three out every 10 employees in Costa Rica work for less than minimum salary. The worrisome situation was confirmed by the Ministra de Trabajo, Sandra Piszk.

Piszk said that it is vital to increase the minimum wage for workers, but it also must be respected.

The ministerio de Trabajo is currently negotiating with the public and private sector unions for the mid-year salary hike.

The government has offered the private sector 4.2%, while the unions are demanding 7.2%.

No figures have yet been offered for public sector employees.

The salary hike takes effect on July 1.

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The difference between a Sea Story and a Fairy Tale is that a Fairy Tale starts out 'Once Upon a Time..' and a Sea Story starts out 'This is no Shit...'

(export version only, some restrictions may apply, some assembly required, not valid where the sun don't shine...

if you live in the states of Poverty, Darkness or anywhere outside of The Blessings of Civilization Trust, Inc...other rules may apply)

lol.....seinfeld,...that was a good eoisode.

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"If you dont think women are explosive,....drop one."

Yes, there are more poor in C.R. than many people realize. However, despite the poverty, Costa Rica has the highest standard of living of any central american country. Why do you think it attracts immigrants from all over the world as well as all parts of latin america? Why do you think that the Chinos have taken over the pulperia business? They know opportunity when they see it. Would I like to run a pulperia in Hatillo? No thanks, I'll leave that to the Chinos. My point is that your perception of poverty depends upon your point of reference. Your perception of what is middle class also depends upon your point of reference.

My Tica girlfriend is a sociologist who works for Infocoop. They are a huge cooperative in the business of helping smaller cooperatives start and grow small businesses in C.R. Among other things, she gives seminars to groups of people (women in particular) to train them in how to properly manage a small business. (Let it not be said that nothing is being done to counteract poverty.) She considers herself to be among the middle class. Her hobbit house of 600 square feet has only just enough room in the cochera for her teeny Suzuki Alto. Going by North American standards of wealth, she is working class. Every Saturday morning the Nicaraguan cleaning lady from the office comes to clean her house to make a little extra cash on the side. Together, they do the laundry and clean the place from top to bottom until it sparkles. For all that, she pays her 8 thousand colones. The Nica trabajadora who works six days a week and lives in a teeny house with her Ch*ldren and grandchildren considers her life an improvement to life back home in Nicaragua. The Nica can only dream of ever learning to drive much less own a car, but survival is easier in C.R. nevertheless. Neither would consider prostitution as an option.

I would also like to point out that if one could somehow eliminate poverty in C.R., it would no longer be puta paradise. Just a little food for thought

The part of the middle class in the US that has been under continuous assault for 30 years has been the working middle class whose earning opportunities has been diluted by illegal foreign labor that lives in the US. The other middle class, the professional one, has lived like the rich until the economic crisis.

There is a middle class here. A pharmacist makes 1/2 of an American counterpart, but makes good money. My friend struggled to find 12 who would work for pharmacies in the US. Basically, the professionals make 1/2 of US wages, but own their own properties, may own additional properties, and enjoy a comfortable living here. Keep in mind that latinos tend to work in family groups, so everyone is supported in some way. Even the drug addict/alcoholic brother has a room or apartment.

They have a decent ed system (declining as they try to emulate the US higher education system), price controls on a conasta (basket) of foods, and in the valley, don't need A/C or central heating.

A distinction needs to be made that isn't often done--between the middle income folks ( the managerial class) and the genuine middle class (the self-actualizing professional class). It cuts like this--the middle income needs to work/function in a large-company bureaucracy; they don't exist on their own and are under continual assault; they constitute the bulk of "middle-salary bulge" that's unemployed--many of them will never again work in such positions, mainly because their positions were redundant/unnecessary to begin with--quite unaffordable in these "lean and mean" times. OTOH the genuine middle class as classically defined are those who can go anywhere and set up independently--these are the professionals like architects, engineers, lawyers, accountants, pawn shop owners or other small-businessmen in businesses that Walmart hasn't moved into...yet, etc.--they are also under continual assault but usually don't become burger-flippers, franchise owners of shaky enterprises or "consultants" as alternate career choices because they can move to new territories and re-establish themselves with minimal barriers to entry.
Yes, this is brutal but can you dispute what I've said?

_________________
"A man accustomed to hear only the echo of his own sentiments, soon bars all the common avenues of delight, and has no part in the general gratification of mankind"--Dr. Johnson
"Amen, brother"-ED