I knew this discussion would go down this path, I've had it many times before with 'conservatives.'
Icantstayaway wrote:
Most poor are poor because they in fact are lazy and have a terrible attitude which prevents them from learning. On contrast, the Chinese that are born here do far better by comparison.
Bilko wrote:
But I totally disagree with the assertion that there is a lot of opportunity here. Have you been to the slums?
Icantstayaway wrote:
Yes I ,in fact, have been to the slums, the hilltop barrios, Leon 13 etc and I did the same thing I did when I found myself in the slums of the USA, I GOT THE FU-CK OUT !
Yes, but exactly what did you learn by getting the Phuck out, other than you don't like poverty?
Bilko wrote:
There will always be rags to riches stories. It's absurd to think everybody can start with nothing and become millionaires.
Icantstayaway wrote:
We are not discussing "everybody" being "millionaires". We are discussing the idea that they have no options but to be "more poor than most people think".
Okay, we will take it down a level. It is absurd to think a good percentage of people born with nothing will pull themselves up by their bootstraps and become comfortably middle class.
Bilko wrote:
but I know several girls who implore me to find them houses to clean.
Icantstayaway wrote:
Sure you do. Most of us have heard this more than once. They have taken the easy way out all their life, failing to gain trust of anyone, failing to learn a trade or read a how to book and now the next path of least resistance is to cry you a river. Do those girls meet in the evenings and study or do they watch the can't miss soap operas. Are any of those girls master trades-people after mentoring an aunt or uncle or neighbor , working for free to learn a trade and maybe a more successful thought process and attitude of success. Because thats what it takes if you want to rise above living in the "slums". Mcdonalds is hiring here just like they are in the states.
Schools here are inexpensive per class. And many local people do go to night school for years to change their future.
You KNOW they have taken the easy way out all their lives? Exactly where does this knowledge come from? I doubt it's from talking to actual human beings since you get the Phuck out as soon as you see poverty. As far as McDonald's hiring, they require the equivalent of a HS diploma. They can afford to be choosy. If they lowered the requirements there would be lines around the block for every minimum wage job in the country.
Bilko wrote:
You can dogmatically assert that everybody who wants a job can find one, but you statement proves nothing except your personal belief system. Show me where the jobs are here. Not a few thousand, a million, which is about how many unemployed there are here.
Jsmythe23 wrote:
Don't agree with the assertion that there is no opportunity and that you have to know someone. I've been involved with several businesses in Costa Rica and Panama and can tell you for a fact that I've given opportunities to close to a dozen individuals to make excellent money and to have a chance at advancement with long term possibilities. Not one of them seized the opportunity, between being late, unreliable or stealing they each destroyed any chances they had for something long term. I don't think it's in their nature to think long term in Latin America and that is what destroys them more than anything.
Yes, that is a good point. The culture has taught them that stealing and fraud are how to get ahead in this country (other than being born rich). Somebody can give the number but there is more than one ex-president of Costa Rica under arrest or investigation for fraud. They learned early on that working your ass off just gets you a skinny ass. If you want to succeed you have to be a bigger scammer than the rest. If you want examples in the USA, you need look no farther than the banksters who are taking multi million dollar bonuses for companies that are losing money. You want to tell the K*D selling chicklets that honesty is the best policy. He's not so stupid as to believe that. He may be honest, but he isn't stupid.
Bilko wrote:
The USA is now learning the hard way that 'American Know How' and work ethic can't save an economy built on fraud and theft.
Icantstayaway wrote:
Again I'm guessing you are retired or on disability from a government or maybe a union job. Or had an income that came from the public coffers ? The reason I ask is that everything your saying is propaganda for socialism, right ?
You are guessing wrong. I knew you would have to make this personal. But no, unlike Phil Graham, great anti-government crusader who has never earned a dime that didn't come from Uncle Sam, I don't get Social Security (yet) or disability or retired military, or union (those horrible working people!) And you call me a socialist. I suppose that is the ultimate insult you can throw. I worked, saved money, educated myself for a second career when the first flopped. But unlike some people, I acknowledge that I didn't start out with nothing. My parents were working class, but encouraged me to read. I had a good free public education up until age 20. I never worried about clothes or food or having the power cut off for not paying. There were books in my house. I had a good public library close by. Socialism, perhaps, by your standards. If so, I thank socialism for giving me the tools to eventually earn a decent living.
Icantstayaway wrote:
Speaking of fraud and theft, how about extortion... "OVER- Pay us to do sub-standard work or we'll bankrupt your company."
GM should have went through the bankruptcy process, without government internvention, allowing them to bust the Unions that strangled and suffocated the company. BUT instead of letting the worker rely on "American Know How and work ethic" they are now bleeding and begging the taxpayers of the USA after they bleed the company to the brink of death. This is your way. A way that mentally cripples Americans allowing the Japanese to beat us at our own game on our own soil.
Funny how you don't mention the exponentially larger handouts to the banks and banksters. Or the giveaways to the Big Pharma and the incredible amount of money wasted by the Defense Department. But I guess these aren't the talking points you hear on Fox.
Bilko wrote:
If it feels good to say the wealthy are wealthy because they deserve to be, and the poor are poor because they deserve to be, I'll never convince you otherwise. You'll never convince me Paris Hilton or George W. Bush would have amounted to squat if they hadn't been born on third base.
Icantstayaway wrote:
Here, again your moving extremely far from topic with a preposterous slant. Were not discussing ticos having the American opportunity of being the President's Son and later President or being an heiress to a fortune. Almost no one on the planet has these kinds of situations and most wouldn't want them. Were discussing poor people in Costa Rica don't have to live in poverty.
Further, you cant go with the "ifs" of life. But since you did.... if George W "hadn't been born on third base" he may have been a master tradesman and had a lot less headaches.
He may have been better off, and the country would certainly have been better off.
Icantstayaway wrote:
So to put it in a nut shell for you, there are no magic jobs coming. The government is not either going to produce magic jobs. Those days are over in the USA and not here in Costa Rica. A person that wants to be more than poor will have to do more than suck air. Many international companies are hiring but these jobs require more than "cleaning houses" abilities.
I agree, there are no magic jobs coming. And expanding the bureaucracy here won't do anything for those outside the oligarchy. Just to end with another factoid regarding 'international companies,' Intel is the biggest exporter in Costa Rica. They employ a total of about 3000 people. If finding another 500 Intels to move here is how Costa Rica is going to join the first world, lotsa luck to Costa Rica.
My point is NOT to give handouts or government jobs to the poor, but to fund public education adequately. Anyone who has been here knows that a LOT of work needs to be done here, but there is no money, supposedly, to get it done. Well, there IS money here to get it done, but those who have the money would rather spend it on themselves than improving their country. That is their right, but they depend on the bad education of the lower classes to elect them into office over and over. So it is not in their interest to have a good educational system here. After all, how educated do their 4 maids, 2 gardeners and 3 bodyguards have to be?