www.CostaRicaTicas.com

With all due respect Orange, I think that's a bunch of bunk. Initiative overrides lack of education any day. There are libraries even in the poorest countries where one can educate oneself for free, there are internet cafe's where for .30 an hour they have access to the most up to date information in the world. Please tell Wally Amos of Famous Amos Cookies who was homeless and illiterate and went on to create an empire your theory. Or Les Brown one of the top Motivation Speakers in the world who was grew up in Liberty City, Florida as an illegitimate Ch*ld who was labeled mentally retarded and denied schooling.

There is a program called Kiva http://www.kiva.org/ that has put hundreds of thousands of people just like you mention into their own business with tremendous success.

The problem isn't poor or undeducated at all it's mentality. Most of us in the U.S. are Ch*ldren of immigrants who came here very poor and very uneducated and who worked hard and in the right direction and made much better lives for themselves and their Ch*ldren their Ch*ldren etc. Is it possible to do this in Haiti?, probably not, is it possible in a country with tons of cash floating around and incredible growth happening? of course. Will you be able to do it if you don't seek opportunity, be reliable and responsible, attempt to learn some skills or language from free or inexpensive sources, hang out or relax all the time and don't try to improve yourself? no of course you won't.

There is a lot of opportunity in Panama and Costa Rica, I'm in business in both places and have seen countless people snub their nose at fantastic opportunities that were put right in front of them. Panama has free lessons in English for whoever wants to learn and a program to teach basic entrepenurial and job skills. These programs are not well attended because the people would rather watch tv, drink their balboa beers, watch novellas, hang around or work menial jobs for low pay. My only point is I don't feel sorry for them because they are surrounded by opportunity and don't take advantage of it, even if it stares them right in the face. Most of the businesses I suggested would cost less than $50 to start and could be grown quite big. Although there are exceptions I think it's a different culture and it's not a value for them like it is for us. If they wanted to improve their lives the tools are all around them. I won't give them any sympathy, the people in Haiti, Sierra Leone etc. where there really is NO money and almost no opportunity- they can have my sympathy

Thank You. Obviously someone else here hasn't been "institutionalized" by a government job.

As soon as I read "unemployed-underemployed" in Bilko's response I knew I was speaking to a deaf ear.

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* These are the "Good Ole Days". Enjoy Them.

* RENT but, "Don't Buy a Home in Costa Rica" until you have lived here for THREE years.

In addition to microlenders like Kiva.org, folks could take a tip from Koreans and probably other groups in the US. They decide among themselves who has the best chance of making a go of it, and the families or church groups all pitch in seed money. When the designee starts making some money, he or she feeds that back into the pot so another one or two can get a start. Maybe not a perfect system but it mostly works for them. Then again that system may be a culture thing that wouldn't translate well.

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"A man accustomed to hear only the echo of his own sentiments, soon bars all the common avenues of delight, and has no part in the general gratification of mankind"--Dr. Johnson
"Amen, brother"-ED

here is an article from Inside CR website


Ch*ld Care Takes Precedence Over Eradicating Slums in Costa Rica

More than 5.000 of Costa Rica's poorest families will have to wait to get out of the "precarios" (slum housing) since the Chinchilla government is giving priority to the "programa nacional de guardería" (national Ch*ld care program) and diverting funds from the Instituto Nacional de Vivienda y Urbanismo (INVU).

Some ¢3 billion colones had been earmarked by the previous administration towards eradicating slums. The funds were approved in the last days of his administration by oscar Arias, but as of now the program will count with only ¢900 million colones.

The ¢2.1 billion is being dedicated to the Ch*ld care program promised by presidenta Chinchilla during her election campaign, of which ¢500 million will be used directly for a national network for Ch*ld care centres and ¢1.6 billion will be used by the INVU to meet its budget deficit that has been accumulating for years.
Of course the news caused angered many slum dwellers, especially those of the Rincón Grande de Pavas, Guarari de Heredia and Tejarcillos de Alajuelita that had been targeted to receive help, as well as others in Cartago and rural areas.


meanwhile, here is an article about Nicaragua....(I realize they are different in many ways and their poverty is worse than CR...nevertheless....)

Nicaragua Gives 2,000 Families Homes

MANAGUA - Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega presented 2,537 families in the capital with the deeds to their homes, for a total of 60,000 new homeowners since 2007.

Ortega gave the "urban documents of title" during a mass ceremony held on Wednesday evening in a capital neighborhood, as part of an important governmental program to restore rights to the most disadvantaged people.

Families do not have peace until they have the title deed of the home they are living, if not they are at the risk of been evacuated and the same occurs with country people, said Ortega highlighting the importance of the program with great social impact.

The same occurs in the territories occupied by indigenous communities in the Caribbean autonomous regions, where 15 communal titles have been given so far and there are only 7 left to finish the process.

So far, 13,670 miles have been given to indigenous people, from 19,883 miles that are expected to be given in coming year, Ortega highlighted.

Ortega also highlighted the work of the Title City Council and the Attorney Generalâ�Ös Office, because it is not only about filling out a document of title but it is also important to demarcate each piece of land and plot.

From the total of title deed given to the people on Wednesday, 1,263 were given to head of the family women.

Ortega announced that Sandinistst Youth brigades are building more than 2,500 houses for families living in subhuman conditions.

Solidarity means all Nicaraguan supporting each other, Ortega declared.

_________________
The difference between a Sea Story and a Fairy Tale is that a Fairy Tale starts out 'Once Upon a Time..' and a Sea Story starts out 'This is no Shit...'

(export version only, some restrictions may apply, some assembly required, not valid where the sun don't shine...

if you live in the states of Poverty, Darkness or anywhere outside of The Blessings of Civilization Trust, Inc...other rules may apply)

This is great ! We see how well welfare has worked in the USA. And guaranteed housing too, HUD guaranteed home loans, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac almost took down our entire economy. Giving people stuff only encourages them to be good at begging.

_________________
* These are the "Good Ole Days". Enjoy Them.

* RENT but, "Don't Buy a Home in Costa Rica" until you have lived here for THREE years.

Speaking of deaf ears... You didn't answer any specific point, just reasserted your belief that poor people are poor because they are lazy. The corollary, that rich people are rich because they are ambitious and moral is total BS. I invite you, once again, to take a tour with me through the slums and tell me where all this opportunity is. Just because a few people can succeed against all odds doesn't mean any real number can or will.

The USA is now learning the hard way that 'American Know How' and work ethic can't save an economy built on fraud and theft. You can dogmatically assert that everybody who wants a job can find one, but you statement proves nothing except your personal belief system. Show me where the jobs are here. Not a few thousand, a million, which is about how many unemployed there are here.

I agree there are needs in this country not being met, but even in a perfect world, no way would they employ all those struggling to make a living. Cleaning services, plumbers, whatever... all depend on money trickling down from those who already have money. Nothing is being produced, the wealthy just get better service. Good for them, but I know several girls who implore me to find them houses to clean. There are just too many unskilled workers for the amount of unskilled work.

The public education system here sucks. The best positions are filled by cronyism. There will always be rags to riches stories. It's absurd to think everybody can start with nothing and become millionaires.

If it feels good to say the wealthy are wealthy because they deserve to be, and the poor are poor because they deserve to be, I'll never convince you otherwise. You'll never convince me Paris Hilton or George W. Bush would have amounted to squat if they hadn't been born on third base.

_________________
"The only normal people are those you don't know very well." Joe Ancis

Most poor are poor because they in fact are lazy and have a terrible attitude which prevents them from learning. On contrast, the Chinese that are born here do far better by comparison.


Yes I ,in fact, have been to the slums, the hilltop barrios, Leon 13 etc and I did the same thing I did when I found myself in the slums of the USA, I GOT THE FU-CK OUT !


We are not discussing "everybody" being "millionaires". We are discussing the idea that they have no options but to be "more poor than most people think".



Sure you do. Most of us have heard this more than once. They have taken the easy way out all their life, failing to gain trust of anyone, failing to learn a trade or read a how to book and now the next path of least resistance is to cry you a river. Do those girls meet in the evenings and study or do they watch the can't miss soap operas. Are any of those girls master trades-people after mentoring an aunt or uncle or neighbor , working for free to learn a trade and maybe a more successful thought process and attitude of success. Because thats what it takes if you want to rise above living in the "slums". Mcdonalds is hiring here just like they are in the states.
Schools here are inexpensive per class. And many local people do go to night school for years to change their future.




This is the real situation. Read above, "not one". They do the opposite of what it takes to achieve.


Again I'm guessing you are retired or on disability from a government or maybe a union job. Or had an income that came from the public coffers ? The reason I ask is that everything your saying is propaganda for socialism, right ?



Speaking of fraud and theft, how about extortion... "OVER- Pay us to do sub-standard work or we'll bankrupt your company."
GM should have went through the bankruptcy process, without government internvention, allowing them to bust the Unions that strangled and suffocated the company. BUT instead of letting the worker rely on "American Know How and work ethic" they are now bleeding and begging the taxpayers of the USA after they bleed the company to the brink of death. This is your way. A way that mentally cripples Americans allowing the Japanese to beat us at our own game on our own soil.


Here, again your moving extremely far from topic with a preposterous slant. Were not discussing ticos having the American opportunity of being the President's Son and later President or being an heiress to a fortune. Almost no one on the planet has these kinds of situations and most wouldn't want them. Were discussing poor people in Costa Rica don't have to live in poverty.
Further, you cant go with the "ifs" of life. But since you did.... if George W "hadn't been born on third base" he may have been a master tradesman and had a lot less headaches.

So to put it in a nut shell for you, there are no magic jobs coming. The government is not either going to produce magic jobs. Those days are over in the USA and not here in Costa Rica. A person that wants to be more than poor will have to do more than suck air. Many international companies are hiring but these jobs require more than "cleaning houses" abilities.

_________________
* These are the "Good Ole Days". Enjoy Them.

* RENT but, "Don't Buy a Home in Costa Rica" until you have lived here for THREE years.

And driven to home plate in a limo!!!!!

Sorry guys but you two who are arguing against what Bilko is saying just have no concept of reality in Costa Rica--you obviously have never been out of the gulch and or Escazu!! Spend a day (on the ground, not in a car) in just about any barrio in Hatillo or Desamparados or Alajuetila or Uruca or Barrio Mexico or even better, in all of the rural areas of CR. Go into the homes (if you dare), see how they live--NO; 'how they exist"! And by 'they' I am talking about hundreds of thousands, not the one in a million who by some strange twist of fate is able to overcome the adversity, poverity, lack of education, the total lack of concern by the parents, the wealthy, or the government!! When you have a public school that is totally disfunctional (no matter what the government nor the wealthy want you to believe) where most K*ds that are able to go long enough to finish with the equivalant of maybe a 3rd grade education in the states; where many, many of the really poor do not even finish because the family does not have the money to pay all the cost of the "free" education. Have you guys ever been inside a public school here?? Are you aware that the average school day per student is less than half a day; that the teachers 'teach' two different sets of students a day; that the noise level is so bad the you could not possible hear yourself think, much less learn ANYTHING!!!! And those 'teachers'?? most have an education level equal to about a 9th ot 10th grade level in the USA. Don't get me wrong; most of the teachers care and try, but they can only do so much with what they have to work with. If you think for one minute that the public school system is working here just walk around ANY barrio in the middle of the day and see how many K*ds are on the streets playing when, if in the USA, they would be in school!!

Yes in the USA anyone can, give the right set of circumstances, the drive and ambition, and a hell of a lot of luck, climb out of poverty. In this country, as in many 3rd world country, that just is not the case--you can not relate what can happen in a country like the USA to what is possible in a 3rd world country. You say they can go to the library or use the internet-- there are hundreds of thousands of people in ths country that can not read--how do they use a library?? nor do they have the 30 cents for an hour in an internet cafe, and if they did, what good would it do them???? They still can not read!!!!! Living in extreme poverty is the only thing they know, the only thing their parents and their parients, and so on, knew! There is no instilling ambitition, nor drive, nor desire in the K*ds when they are young.

As for there being jobs: Using the house cleaning that has been mention; yes there are house cleaning jobs available in the homes of the upper middle class and the wealthy--two groups that are outnumbered 10,000 to one by the poor. There are a million Nicaraguans in CR looking for those few jobs also; and are willing to work for much less than the minimun wage! In short, there are thousands looking for every one cleaning job that exists. Yes there are jobs but most require ar least some education and for every person that finds a job, there are 10000 still looking. The very small # that manages to climb out of the poverty is nothing compared to the million or so who do not and can not!!

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Old and retired but still bang, and bang, and bang!!!

28 minutes later ...

_________________
* These are the "Good Ole Days". Enjoy Them.

* RENT but, "Don't Buy a Home in Costa Rica" until you have lived here for THREE years.

Well,

I usually avoid these discussions but I thought I would add my perspective this time:

There are four main stressors that tend to make cultures/nations competitive:

1) Difficult weather

2) Lack of food or difficulty in growing or procurig food

3) Wars

4) Competition form immigration

Costa Rica is blesssed in many ways and has created a culture that has aspects that i like and aspects that I deplore.
For the last several hundred years it has been one of the easier places on the planet to get by (not get rich or wealthy).

They have had virtually none of the stressors. The Nica immigration is relativel new and effects mostly low end labor.

Overall this has created a complacent non-competitve culture. As the global economy now effects virtually all nations, costa rica is ill prepared to compete. The labor source here is not price competitve enough or hard working enough to be a global low cost provider. The govt. makes doing business here ridiculously difficult.

The continued drop in safety here is a function of a younger generation of Ticos and immigrants that have very little real opportunity and see a vanishing Tico middle class. Thi is a very difficult fix, once societies become lawless it is very hard to turn the tide.

I personally see Costa Rica losing ground over the next decade and being stuck relying on natural resources and tourism as the only sustainable industries.

I live here and enjoy many things about being here, but I do not have high hopes for the future because I do not believe the people here are tough enough to do what is necessary.


BKTUNA/BOyd
I am never going home

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BKTUNA/Boyd
I am never going home

Good points Bktuna, an interesting discussion here. I'm tempted to jump in but better shut up for now and learn from those with more knowledge.

Did you miss that Icantstayaway lives in CR and Jsmythe23 has businesses in CR and Panama!?

Also any discussion about Nicauragua doing something right is lost on me.

It is now considered the worst place in the hemisphere other than Haiti to live and work.

There is a mass population exodus, lack of human rights and no sustainable economy.

BKTUNA/Boyd
I am never going home

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BKTUNA/Boyd
I am never going home

Get real amigo!! the first quote is talking about 'working chicas' (putas) who have seen how the rest of the world lives (from gringos) and they have for the most part a larger income than the average "poor" person in CR, and yes I know many who are doing this but compared to the millions who are poor and will stay that way, the few hundred putas who are trying to improve their lives is a very smalll number!! And not every chica in Costa Rica can nor would be a puta for any amount of money!!! Contrary to popular gringo belief, the vast majority of Ticas would not sell their bodies for any amount of money nor for a way out of the poverty!!

And the second quote: The 'many" chicas I refered to ARE still a very small # compared to the millions who are in extreme poverty here.

If you can not see the reality, and the dispair, and the lack of hope that exists not only here, but in all 3rd world latin countries, then you are living in your little dream world with your eyes closed. The cast system has existed for centuries in spanish society and in all probability will continue to exist--children are taught to except their position in life and not to try to change it. And as long as that way of life exists nothing will change.

OH and I am not sure just where you got the "28 minutes" part!! One post was posted about 2:30 Costa Rica time this morning and the other, just a few minutes ago (about 9:15 this morning)

Very good points BK

Paco, NO I did not miss those points!! BUT I also know how certain gringos "LIVE" here and "HAVE BUSINESS HERE" and never get out into the real world-they deal with the 'haves', they 'hang' with the tourists, they spend their free time in the REY or the SL. They do not deal with the poor nor the uneducated except when totally necessary and then usually thru an interperter or some other 'go between" ! They still have no concept of the 'real world' in this or any other Latin country!!

_________________
Old and retired but still bang, and bang, and bang!!!

I knew this discussion would go down this path, I've had it many times before with 'conservatives.'






Yes, but exactly what did you learn by getting the Phuck out, other than you don't like poverty?




Okay, we will take it down a level. It is absurd to think a good percentage of people born with nothing will pull themselves up by their bootstraps and become comfortably middle class.





You KNOW they have taken the easy way out all their lives? Exactly where does this knowledge come from? I doubt it's from talking to actual human beings since you get the Phuck out as soon as you see poverty. As far as McDonald's hiring, they require the equivalent of a HS diploma. They can afford to be choosy. If they lowered the requirements there would be lines around the block for every minimum wage job in the country.






Yes, that is a good point. The culture has taught them that stealing and fraud are how to get ahead in this country (other than being born rich). Somebody can give the number but there is more than one ex-president of Costa Rica under arrest or investigation for fraud. They learned early on that working your ass off just gets you a skinny ass. If you want to succeed you have to be a bigger scammer than the rest. If you want examples in the USA, you need look no farther than the banksters who are taking multi million dollar bonuses for companies that are losing money. You want to tell the K*D selling chicklets that honesty is the best policy. He's not so stupid as to believe that. He may be honest, but he isn't stupid.




You are guessing wrong. I knew you would have to make this personal. But no, unlike Phil Graham, great anti-government crusader who has never earned a dime that didn't come from Uncle Sam, I don't get Social Security (yet) or disability or retired military, or union (those horrible working people!) And you call me a socialist. I suppose that is the ultimate insult you can throw. I worked, saved money, educated myself for a second career when the first flopped. But unlike some people, I acknowledge that I didn't start out with nothing. My parents were working class, but encouraged me to read. I had a good free public education up until age 20. I never worried about clothes or food or having the power cut off for not paying. There were books in my house. I had a good public library close by. Socialism, perhaps, by your standards. If so, I thank socialism for giving me the tools to eventually earn a decent living.







Funny how you don't mention the exponentially larger handouts to the banks and banksters. Or the giveaways to the Big Pharma and the incredible amount of money wasted by the Defense Department. But I guess these aren't the talking points you hear on Fox.




He may have been better off, and the country would certainly have been better off.



I agree, there are no magic jobs coming. And expanding the bureaucracy here won't do anything for those outside the oligarchy. Just to end with another factoid regarding 'international companies,' Intel is the biggest exporter in Costa Rica. They employ a total of about 3000 people. If finding another 500 Intels to move here is how Costa Rica is going to join the first world, lotsa luck to Costa Rica.

My point is NOT to give handouts or government jobs to the poor, but to fund public education adequately. Anyone who has been here knows that a LOT of work needs to be done here, but there is no money, supposedly, to get it done. Well, there IS money here to get it done, but those who have the money would rather spend it on themselves than improving their country. That is their right, but they depend on the bad education of the lower classes to elect them into office over and over. So it is not in their interest to have a good educational system here. After all, how educated do their 4 maids, 2 gardeners and 3 bodyguards have to be?

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"The only normal people are those you don't know very well." Joe Ancis

I have seen the poor side of CR. I have also seen dirt poor people living in Limon practicing English every day for 4 months to get a job on a Cruise ship. I'm glad they didn't hear it as you tell it or they wouldn't have bothered trying.
There may be a class system and this may be a subsistence-living country for the most part. This does not excuse the ENTIRE population for being lazy and obstinate letting their attitude impair their learning ability.
As I stated earlier in this thread.

Why doesn't that stop the Chinese born here ? They do fine.

_________________
* These are the "Good Ole Days". Enjoy Them.

* RENT but, "Don't Buy a Home in Costa Rica" until you have lived here for THREE years.