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Webbew1
 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:36 pm 
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Thanks, Jazzbo. I do have quite a few people I know on the board from years past. I disappeared without explanation for a good long time from Costa Rica and the board and I felt that they were all owed an explanation as to why. I'm guessing that a lot of them don't really want to hear my sob story (after all, sob stories are like opinions and assholes, everybody's got one and they're all good for shit). I wish I could have come back with tales of triumph, but it just didn't turn out that way. It is what it is. The solid, reasoned advice has been much appreciated. But as you said, this is a board filled with dudes. And as we all know, around a bunch of dudes you better come armed with a good sense of humor and a tough shell.
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Scuba1
 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:10 pm 
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'Web on some issues you make some good points - I'm hardly a Republican; I'm a registered independent and I think my leanings are towards the Libertarian side - you would find me quite liberal on social issues and very conservative on economic issues.

I truly am not trying to bash you, but to cut through all the nonsense and BS - you have to ask yourself "If I spent all this money on student loans and higher education, what did it really get me?"

If you have all this student loan debt and little in the way of economic success - yes, I realize things happen and some things - possibly beyond your direct control - might be to blame - but you also should do some real soul searching.

As I previously stated, as one human being to another, I wish you the best :)
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Webbew1
 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:27 pm 
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If you have all this student loan debt and little in the way of economic success - yes, I realize things happen and some things - possibly beyond your direct control - might be to blame - but you also should do some real soul searching.


I probably should have realized before I started school that Morning Glory Syndrome would likely give rise to issues which were going to be insurmountable in the long run. My fore most goal was to become a pilot, but for obvious reasons that was out of the question. However, I thought that if I couldn't fly 'em, then at least I could fix 'em. In school, I did fine in my classroom work and had no problem completing lab assignments, even though it usually took me a little longer to finish than many of the other students.

Unfortunately, the real world environment of an Avionics Shop turned out to be far different from the lab environment which the school provided. Most of the lab work was built around learning basic electronics theory and principles. In an Avionics Shop you apply those principles to real aircraft.

In the long run, all the school had to do is provide me with an education, which they did. And so long as I was passing my course work with minimal competence, they weren't going to take away a cash cow by telling me that this might not be the thing for me. Figuring that out was ultimately up to me, and this is where I failed.
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Webbew1
 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:45 pm 
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'Web on some issues you make some good points - I'm hardly a Republican; I'm a registered independent and I think my leanings are towards the Libertarian side - you would find me quite liberal on social issues and very conservative on economic issues.


Lately I've tended to vote Democrat, even though I prefer smaller, more effective government. I don't care for the Dems much because they're bumbling idiots most of the time, but the Republicans are simply terrifying. They aren't even Republicans anymore. They're a bunch of Oligarchs who are successfully convincing a lot of people in middle America that Plutocracy is Capitalism.
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JazzboCR
 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:16 pm 
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Webbew1 wrote:
Quote:

I probably should have realized before I started school that Morning Glory Syndrome would likely give rise to issues which were going to be insurmountable in the long run. My fore most goal was to become a pilot, but for obvious reasons that was out of the question.

For those as unfamiliar as I was, here's what MGS is: http://www.chla.org/site/c.ipINKTOAJsG/ ... AomlPldWSo
At least he went to a reputable trade school--that there are so many bad ones sucking loan money and GI Bill dollars from us is a national scandal. I'll leave you to find proof of this assertion on your own.

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Scuba1
 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:23 pm 
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JazzboCR wrote:
Webbew1 wrote:
Quote:

I probably should have realized before I started school that Morning Glory Syndrome would likely give rise to issues which were going to be insurmountable in the long run. My fore most goal was to become a pilot, but for obvious reasons that was out of the question.

For those as unfamiliar as I was, here's what MGS is: http://www.chla.org/site/c.ipINKTOAJsG/ ... AomlPldWSo
At least he went to a reputable trade school--that there are so many bad ones sucking loan money and GI Bill dollars from us is a national scandal. I'll leave you to find proof of this assertion on your own.



I think our friend proves your point, Jazz - for profit trade schools are very expensive - and some offer courses of dubious quality.

Regardless, that is a ton of debt - I loaned money to an FAA shop - they did B checks; C checks - and in non union Miami, their guys made like $17/hour - and this was over 10 years ago......
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Webbew1
 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:36 am 
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That's a pretty good starting wage for an A&P Tech working in a non-union shop. Especially seventeen years ago. These days, A&P's usually start out at about the same wage (from $14.00/ hr. to $17.00/ hr. depending on location and cost of living adjustment). Avionics Techs tend to start out a bit higher because they have a more in-depth knowledge of electrical systems than A&P's. However, it appears as though the average wage for both positions has remained stagnate over the last fifteen to twenty years, which proves that it clearly isn't only janitors and retail workers and the like who are being effected by the flat lining of wages.
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Scuba1
 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:55 am 
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Webbew1 wrote:
That's a pretty good starting wage for an A&P Tech working in a non-union shop. Especially seventeen years ago. These days, A&P's usually start out at about the same wage (from $14.00/ hr. to $17.00/ hr. depending on location and cost of living adjustment). Avionics Techs tend to start out a bit higher because they have a more in-depth knowledge of electrical systems than A&P's. However, it appears as though the average wage for both positions has remained stagnate over the last fifteen to twenty years, which proves that it clearly isn't only janitors and retail workers and the like who are being effected by the flat lining of wages.



No - not at all - you just don't get it...... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Certain jobs - among them retail workers, Janitors, cashiers - to name a few - are positions that are only "worth" a certain pay scale - example - a grocery cashier is NOT worth 50 - 60k (I think - I could be wrong - Dominics, a union grocery chain in the Midwest - pays its cashiers far more than other chains - due to being unionized - nor (sorry Jazz) is a janitor worth 60k - even one working in a Post Office. :) :) :)

If you work for wages, you either have to make something or sell something to make decent money - one other way would be the industry you mention - skilled tech's can command excellent wages - as can the tech specializing in transmissions (to give an example) at a dealership - the jamoke doing oil changes - not so much. Given the industry your choose, I'm confused why you are suffering so economically.

I don't "know you" but I'm fairly perceptive and have a fair amount of life experience - I think what happened was you attended a for profit tech school, took out massive government backed loans (that it now looks like I'm on the hook for if you default :roll: ), overpaid the shit out of your tuition, and for whatever reason(s) can't make a living - or the debt burden is just so crushing you are looking up to see down.

If the above paragraph is anywhere close to the truth, again I wish you the best - but you dug this hole and until you assess your employment prospects as well as some other life counceling - I would bet your home county or city has some of these services available - you need to get on this and get your life in order - even thinking about a trip to CR is very ill advised (I'm being kind) at this time.

Get going - tomorrow is the first day of the rest of your life!
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WiseAsh
 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:30 am 
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Scuba1 wrote:
Webbew1 wrote:
That's a pretty good starting wage for an A&P Tech working in a non-union shop. Especially seventeen years ago. These days, A&P's usually start out at about the same wage (from $14.00/ hr. to $17.00/ hr. depending on location and cost of living adjustment). Avionics Techs tend to start out a bit higher because they have a more in-depth knowledge of electrical systems than A&P's. However, it appears as though the average wage for both positions has remained stagnate over the last fifteen to twenty years, which proves that it clearly isn't only janitors and retail workers and the like who are being effected by the flat lining of wages.



No - not at all - you just don't get it...... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Certain jobs - among them retail workers, Janitors, cashiers - to name a few - are positions that are only "worth" a certain pay scale - example - a grocery cashier is NOT worth 50 - 60k (I think - I could be wrong - Dominics, a union grocery chain in the Midwest - pays its cashiers far more than other chains - due to being unionized - nor (sorry Jazz) is a janitor worth 60k - even one working in a Post Office. :) :) :)

HeyScuba1howwouldyousuggestigetmylifeonorder?

If you work for wages, you either have to make something or sell something to make decent money - one other way would be the industry you mention - skilled tech's can command excellent wages - as can the tech specializing in transmissions (to give an example) at a dealership - the jamoke doing oil changes - not so much. Given the industry your choose, I'm confused why you are suffering so economically.

I don't "know you" but I'm fairly perceptive and have a fair amount of life experience - I think what happened was you attended a for profit tech school, took out massive government backed loans (that it now looks like I'm on the hook for if you default :roll: ), overpaid the shit out of your tuition, and for whatever reason(s) can't make a living - or the debt burden is just so crushing you are looking up to see down.

If the above paragraph is anywhere close to the truth, again I wish you the best - but you dug this hole and until you assess your employment prospects as well as some other life counceling - I would bet your home county or city has some of these services available - you need to get on this and get your life in order - even thinking about a trip to CR is very ill advised (I'm being kind) at this time.

Get going - tomorrow is the first day of the rest of your life!
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JazzboCR
 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:41 pm 
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Scuba1 wrote:
took out massive government backed loans (that it now looks like I'm on the hook for if you default

Rarely have I read such a piece of blatant snobbery and selective fact-picking to pre-determine an argument's outcome. For shame. But I'm just attacking this quoted errant pseudo-fact--as I stated plainly above, Government educational loans are clearly and explicitly exempt from being included in Bankruptcy Petitions or otherwise being defaulted upon--that debt survives any and all attempts to wash it away. If you can't get even this one thing correct, why should the rest of your screed be given any respect? Why does this class warfare (because that is just what it is) call for working folks to get even less than they have, to make the sacrifices? Why should university football and basketball coaches in 40 states be the highest paid public employees (in an activity designed to lose money)? Why should most CEO's pay be determined by Boards of Directors made up of other CEO peers who are dutifully sympathetic and thus desire to ratchet it up for only their benefit? Yet you say the bottom economic tier should pay the price in part-time-ization, pay stagnation or even back-sliding, and all manner of economic uncertainty. Your few pieces here display a distressing lack of heart and empathy, and common sense. What ails you, Bub?

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Scuba1
 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:22 pm 
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And Jazz, if they don't pay it - regardless of BK - the money is still owed......who is responsible?

Its like going BK and thinking it wipes out your credit card debt - well, who do you think suffers for the write off - it just does not get turned into pixie dust.

Who do you think pays the cost of shoplifting - those of us who don't, in the form of higher pricing across the board - the point is these debts, these obligations don't just go away - - you can't BK yourself out of IRS debt either - but when you don't pay, it stays with you forever.

Jazz, we may not agree - but never allude that I'm dumb or I don't know what I'm talking about - I do.

When people get themselves into trouble it almost always starts with poor personal choices, and decisions - the default rate on student loans is awful - especially - as you alluded to - in for profit "college" and trade schools.

Many times in my life I could have choosen to blow money; often that is more fun than being responsible - more should try it.

Look, you want to disagree - that's fine, I still like you :) - but don't think debt owed - to whoever - just goes away when its not paid, regardless if its covered or not under a BK petition.
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Webbew1
 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:45 pm 
Not a Newbie I just don't post much!
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Quote:
Certain jobs - among them retail workers, Janitors, cashiers - to name a few - are positions that are only "worth" a certain pay scale - example - a grocery cashier is NOT worth 50 - 60k (I think - I could be wrong - Dominics, a union grocery chain in the Midwest - pays its cashiers far more than other chains - due to being unionized - nor (sorry Jazz) is a janitor worth 60k - even one working in a Post Office.


Go back and re-read my post. I never said those positions were worth that kind of money. I don't know how you managed to read that into what I wrote, but I guess you managed somehow.

I will say, however, that if you are an A&P Tech flat lined at $17.00/ hr. you certainly have more of a cushion against the increase in cost of goods and services than you do if you're a cashier at Wal-Mart flat lined at $8.00/ hr. That cushion will eventually go away, however, if things don't change and the gap between the cost of goods and services and wages does not shrink. The end result will be a bunch of middle class folks who are in the same predicament as the working poor.

Quote:
Given the industry your choose, I'm confused why you are suffering so economically.


Rather than taking the time to do a rewrite....

http://costaricaticas.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=46017
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Webbew1
 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:05 pm 
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...if the above paragraph is anywhere close to the truth, again I wish you the best - but you dug this hole and until you assess your employment prospects as well as some other life counseling


I'm on the waiting list for assistance from the Colorado Department of Vocational Rehabilitation/ Visually Impaired Division, but I don't guess they'll be of much assistance to me even when my number does come up. California's DVR wasn't able to help me much because their budget did not allow for tuition assistance, and at this point the only hope I have of developing a marketable skill which pays well is to go back to school and try again. Obviously, this is out of the question because I'm not going to be able to pay tuition on the $8.00/ hr. I make at my job, and my student loan options have been used up. We'll see what happens though. I'm still waiting for that letter to arrive which tells me I've been cleared to meet with my counselor to discuss an employment action plan.
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JazzboCR
 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:28 pm 
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Scuba1 wrote:
A 1 >> And Jazz, if they don't pay it - regardless of BK - the money is still owed......who is responsible? AND THEN 2 >>
Its like going BK and thinking it wipes out your credit card debt - well, who do you think suffers for the write off - it just does not get turned into pixie dust. AND THEN 3 >>
Who do you think pays the cost of shoplifting - those of us who don't, in the form of higher pricing across the board - the point is these debts, these obligations don't just go away - - you can't BK yourself out of IRS debt either - but when you don't pay, it stays with you forever AND THEN 4 >> - but don't think debt owed - to whoever - just goes away when its not paid, regardless if its covered or not under a BK petition.

Introducing some order here:
1 AND THEN 2--The question and the point of this post--To whom if anybody is the debt owed? Most debts aren't forever--they expire. Most bizmen know this and make allowances. In effect, it does get turned into pixie dust and those bizmen take a bit out of loss reserves (a kind of self-insurance) or get reimbursed through insurance. Does this take down profits a wee bit? Sure it does so the mark-up is tweaked.
THEN 3 When did an ultra-minor crime like shoplifting get introduced to this convo? Smoke and mirrors. You helped make my case with the "IRS-forever" thingie.
THEN 4 Again, yes it does. See 1 AND THEN 2 for details. Nobody but the poor suffering sods gets hurt--that's what makes the Great American Credit Machine work so well in keeping consumer spending as the principal driver of our economy. Got it now?

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Webbew1
 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:47 am 
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@Jazzbo.... Private lenders purchase insurance because they understand that a certain percentage of their accounts will default, but how does the game change when it comes to public debt such as student loans? Public debt is not a bunch of private lenders juggling their own money. It's the public sector (the government) juggling the tax payers money. In this instance, I think Scuba is correct. It's the average Joe who gets stuck with the bill when a Sallie Mae or Freddie Mac loan defaults, because when you take into account tax shelters which allow the most wealthy to pay a 0% Effective Tax Rate, it isn't them who are getting stuck with the tab.
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