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 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:00 pm 
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Thanks for the helpful advice, guys. I've burnt my share of midnight oil over the past couple of years trying to think this through, and the more time that passes the more it appears as though bankruptcy is the only realistic option for me.


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 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:31 pm 
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Webbew1 wrote:
Thanks for the helpful advice, guys. I've burnt my share of midnight oil over the past couple of years trying to think this through, and the more time that passes the more it appears as though bankruptcy is the only realistic option for me.


Don't let a slick lawyer :evil: talk you into chapter 13, they get paid much much more and it is disadvantageous to you, :( demand a chapter 7 which should cost no more than $500 in atty fees and it wipes the slate clean and your credit returns to normal much faster. I used to do mortgage loans pre my current status as semi retired. pm me if you have any more specific questions on re-establishing credit after bk, I have decades of experience with this. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:28 pm 
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Netgems wrote:

demand a chapter 7 which should cost no more than $500 in atty fees and it wipes the slate clean and your credit returns to normal much faster.


A Chapter 7 stays on your credit report for 10 years.
A Chapter 13 stays on your credit report for 7 years.

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 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:52 pm 
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Gringotim wrote:
Netgems wrote:

demand a chapter 7 which should cost no more than $500 in atty fees and it wipes the slate clean and your credit returns to normal much faster.


A Chapter 7 stays on your credit report for 10 years.
A Chapter 13 stays on your credit report for 7 years.


Agree totally. Chapter 7 will allow you to pretty well reestablish credit within two years and, in some cases, immediately. Chapter 13 probably will take the years that your are in Chapter 13, normally five, and then two years beyond that to reestablish credit. Hard for lenders to lend to borrowers who are actually still in bankruptcy.

Have a Great Day,

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:08 pm 
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Dave wrote:

A Chapter 7 stays on your credit report for 10 years.
A Chapter 13 stays on your credit report for 7 years.


Agree totally. Chapter 7 will allow you to pretty well reestablish credit within two years and, in some cases, immediately. Chapter 13 probably will take the years that your are in Chapter 13, normally five, and then two years beyond that to reestablish credit. Hard for lenders to lend to borrowers who are actually still in bankruptcy.
[/quote]

I have found this to be true, though I don't understand it--if you go belly-up, you can't do it again for a long time (no escape hatch) so why shouldn't your credit be restored? I'm baffled and nobody I've asked can explain it. Here's a good explanation of the differences and pitfalls of Chapter 7 vs. Chapter 13 Bankruptcies. I wouldn't be too concerned about the Chapter 7 Means test--I qualified and have a reasonable guaranteed income.:
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/ ... utpcy.html and http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/ ... means-test
Also be aware that not every type of debt can be wiped out--Federal student loan debt, for example, is specifically exempt from BK protection.
I apologize for screwing up who said what above--Bro Dave was quoting Bro Netgems. My bad.

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 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:19 am 
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Agree with Skyports assessment of credit cards. Credit debt is definitely one of the things which lead to the economic downfall of 2007. That being said, one needs only look at the ever widening gap between average workman's salaries and the cost of goods and services to discover the main reason. Salaries remain stagnate while the cost of living continues to rise. Is it any wonder that so many have relied on credit to make ends meet?

I've never been a big fan of "trickle down economics". The whole theory behind trickle down economics was the idea that when the cup fills, it spills over and benefits those at the bottom. It's a nice theory.... unless the cup just expands once it fills up.

This is exactly what has occurred in the United States and in many other countries over the past thirty years. Then in the mid-90's, along came the banks with their ever growing coffers of wealth and their Mount Everest size pile of credit to extend. It seemed to be a life preserver for people who found themselves struggling more and more to keep a roof over their heads, put food on the table and send Ch*ldren to college. In reality, it was just a temporary stop gap and a sure fire recipe for economic calamity.


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 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:06 am 
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Agree 100+% with all in Bro Webbew's post, especially the disparity between minimum wage/living wage and an ordinary family's costs. Another factor is so many formerly full-time jobs being converted to part-time or being outsourced to free-lancers or contractors. The era of 25-30 years employment then a comfortable retirement is vanishing, not to mention the implied loyalty between worker and employer. Hardly any family wants 1 or both partners to have to work 2 or more jobs just to get by, but that's the new reality. And due to pressure from the moneyed interests, social welfare support is drying up too, despite what the news media would have you believe. I am not a Socialist, I'm a realist with feelings. I'm glad I'm as old as I am, so I won't be around to see much less have to endure the end point of all manner of trends and policies.

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 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:29 pm 
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Always anticipating worst case scenarios, I have paid off at least 3 new cars using credit cards. Those days are pretty much over, however. The plan went like this: Purchase the car under conventional financing with no pay off penalty; make a couple of payments; and then wait around for a balance transfer offer to come around from the credit card boys: Back when, those offers were good FOR THE LIFETIME OF THE LOAN/BALANCE TRANSFER ON THE CREDIT CARD. I'm talking rates of 1.99% and 2.99% UNTIL THE LOAN WAS PAID OFF. Why? Reason being, if "business" got bad, my car was owned by me and I owed money on an unsecured debt which is wholly claimable in a chapter 7 proceeding. My car could not be re-possessed. Same with all manner of consumer goods. Screw the credit card industry. It was fun while it lasted but, alas, the 0% balance transfer offers are only good for 18mos max anymore (at least to me). Still, it was very reassuring to know my ride could not be taken from me and all I'd have to do is use chapter 7 to dump the credit card debt. *shrug* :P :lol: 8)

Too, MANY other consumer goods were paid for in the same fashion: home appliances; home equity loans; blah, blah, blah.

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- Aldous Huxley, Brave New World, Ch. 16


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 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:19 pm 
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that's some funny shit, skyport323!!!!! Ahhh.....Godwin's Law!!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Here's the deal....and it's really none of your business, but I'm a swell kind of guy for a trouble making poster: Where did I write or state I have personally used Chapter 13 or Chapter 7?? The fact is, I have not. Haven't needed to. HOWEVER:

If bankruptcy can be a financial strategy for the likes of Trump, Henry Ford, Larry King, Francis Ford Coppola, and untold number of 1%'ers who hide behind shell corporations, it's a strategy the common man can use.

As for driving around in my "stolen car", it feels great!! All THREE of them, one at a time....knowing that SHOULD anything ever go South for Steven1 money wise, my SHIT would be paid for and mine, struck me as pretty damn smart.

What I read in your post is bitterness you weren't sober enough to plan out your money and took a plunge somewhere such that you're not able to live like you once did. Should have put some money away for a rainy day....you know.....like the ant did whilst the grasshopper fiddled the summer away. Methinks you turned out to be the grasshopper!! Sux to be you, dead broke and realizing Mr. Charlie gots all your money?>?

In fact, in my Last Will and Testament, I have specifically indicated that not one red cent shall go to pay off ANY unsecured debt. As the will notes "They'll get over it." Nope, with beneficiaries, transfer on death accounts, and transfer on death deeds....all exempt from probate, MY money shall stay MY money! Take a hike, dude....and try reading posts a bit more closely, eh? 8)

PS: Not to brag, but my FICO fluctuates between 805 and 812. You might try rethinking how you handle your money and take a different trail? :idea:

skyport323 wrote:
So Steve how does it feel to ride in a stolen car ? got it for free did not pay for it no jail time just work the system and go BK , I bet you paid your CRT on a BK card as well just like Jazz , but now show up as a life time member . You guys kill me with your justifications. Hitler made all his crimes legal before he did them as well. Hitler never broke the law he made laws that covered him as he went . But was it right ? Is it right ? How do you sleep ? Why not ride in a used car you could pay for . I am sorry for guys like you using the system . You will pay believe me. But you got a flag under your name with a PHd makes your dick hard right ? Makes me want to vomit. Here is a question How Many of you guys /experts paid your CRT and then went Bankrupt on that Credit Card ? That's right . What goes around comes around.

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- Aldous Huxley, Brave New World, Ch. 16


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 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:46 pm 
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Honestly, I can't say that I am able to muster up a whole wad of sympathy for the lenders who got screwed when people like Steven1 took advantage of the system. After all, these folks are part of the the same group which destroyed our Capitalist, Representative Republic and replaced it with an Oligarchy. So, if karma happened to come back to bite them in the ass for their behavior, then what of it? Hearing these folks complain that some people abused the system is like listening to a thief whine about the fact that they got robbed. I guess it's sort of a tough titty to suckle, but if they want to try a tough titty for real, they ought to walk in the shoes of the guy who is attempting to feed a family on eight bucks an hour.


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 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:39 am 
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Webbew1,

I don't know why I am writing this, but I'll do it again: I've yet to take advantage of chapter 7 or chapter 13; hasn't been the need. I'm just the kind of guy that is always expecting the worst case scenario to go down, and when it doesn't, well, it doesn't. It's a Viet Nam thing.

Still, I took advantage of OFFERS the banks made to me. They were gambling that I'd miss a payment so they could jack the interest rate up for the lifetime of the loan instead of the 1.99% I did for two cars and the 2.99% of the last car. By the way, the 2.99% er is still getting paid....slowly but surely, and on purpose. There is reason to carry consumer debt for FICO purposes. (I kinda got the shaft a bit on the 2.99% deal given one can obtain new car loans for 2.44% or better, but my minimum payment is so low ($23.00), it's a wash as to who is getting screwed. Then again when I took the 2.99%, everybody else was happy to pay 8% for a "car loan".....I've just been taking my time to pay off this last one.....*shrug*).

What you've written is 100% accurate. The working people in the USA working for $8.00@hour and being told to put money into 401(k) accounts for their "future" are getting reamed. I'm no high roller, but I am able to read and learn and reading the tax code(s) is one curious endeavor. IF one plays the money game the way the monied play it, one gets ahead. An example: Too many of the middle class found that deduction of credit card debt for itemization was not only possible but legal. What happened? Itemization of credit card debt was eliminated by the wealthy (Congress). Just as soon as the dwindling middle class catch on to something, the wealthy place it out of reach, and then come up with some new hair brained idea that lines their pockets even more...making same JUST out of reach of the regular Joe. Once the regular Joe figures out how to "do it", the game is changed again.

Even more laughable is the current rates of interest on credit card debt. Banks can look you straight in the eye and proclaim that a 29% APR is a "good rate"!!!! We called that loan sharking back in the '50's and '60's. And yet the rate of return on CD's or Money Market accounts is well under 1% most generally. It is obscene. The money people have me in a curious situation: I have tons of credit available to me. I mean tons. I took every offer to obtain credit ever given to me. Never missed a payment, either. I'm an old man now and those accounts are still alive but never used. I use them every so often just to keep them alive. (A guy never knows when it's flip out time; time to cash in all the chips; take cash advances to the max and just split on one last big hurrah and that certainly wouldn't be in San Jose, although San Jose might be an overnight destination en route to the final destination...just for old times sake mind you. And, the stay in San Jose might be at one of the 5 star joints and the food might be something other than Soda Acropolis.) If I turn them in, my FICO score goes down. These boobs don't care what my cash flow is, they care more about what my FICO score is. Idiots. FICO scores are based on % of credit available and what % of that credit is "being used". Because I have tons of credit and use a mere fraction of it (enough to keep my meager income spent every month), I have a great FICO score and can go out and buy anything I want. Just for numbers sake, let's say I have $8million available to me in credit and owe $10,000.00 in unsecured debt. Excuse me, but my FICO score is where it needs to be ..... well over 800. They don't care what my income is, nor what my holdings may be; and they certainly don't need to know about the safe deposit box in Georgetown.

Let's look at the facts, too, for our good friend skyport323 who wants to go to Cuba to infuse the island with hard currency instead of that funny money they're stuck with as that ridiculous embargo continues: Over time, the United States has expected less and less of its elite, even as society has oriented itself in a way that is most likely to maximize their income. The top income-tax rate was 91 percent in 1960, 70 percent in 1980, 50 percent in 1986, and 39.6 percent in 2000, and is now 35 percent. Income from investments is taxed at a rate of 15 percent. The estate tax has been gutted.

I didn't invent the game, but know how to use it, I do. And bankruptcy is always on the horizon.....just like the VC..... :!:

Webbew1 wrote:
Honestly, I can't say that I am able to muster up a whole wad of sympathy for the lenders who got screwed when people like Steven1 took advantage of the system. After all, these folks are part of the the same group which destroyed our Capitalist, Representative Republic and replaced it with an Oligarchy. So, if karma happened to come back to bite them in the ass for their behavior, then what of it? Hearing these folks complain that some people abused the system is like listening to a thief whine about the fact that they got robbed. I guess it's sort of a tough titty to suckle, but if they want to try a tough titty for real, they ought to walk in the shoes of the guy who is attempting to feed a family on eight bucks an hour.

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- Aldous Huxley, Brave New World, Ch. 16


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 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:27 am 
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LOL! I have a feeling our friend, Skyport might disagree with your assessment that you aren't abusing the system. Not to speak for him, but I'm guessing that in his eyes, you making the minimum payments on low interest loans and transferring balances back in the gay ol' 90's while doling out those minimum payments until the day you die.... then telling the lenders to take a hike on your death bed WAS and IS stealing. But what of it? That's the way the lenders set it up, so one might as well play them at their own game if they have the chops for it.

Quote:
The top income-tax rate was 91 percent in 1960, 70 percent in 1980, 50 percent in 1986, and 39.6 percent in 2000, and is now 35 percent. Income from investments is taxed at a rate of 15 percent. The estate tax has been gutted.


It's interesting to note that the most productive period the United States has ever seen came after the Great Depression when the tax rate on the top 1% was at its historic peak. I get sick and tired of these wind bags in Congress like Scott Walker, Ron Paul and Mitch McConnell who whine about taxing the 1% and call it "punishing the wealthy". Taxing the wealthy is not punishment. It's asking them to give back to the system which allowed them to become wealthy in the first place. Besides, as far as I know, men like Henry Ford and Charles Lindburgh didn't exactly live in abject poverty back in the 40's and 50's when they were being taxed at a whopping 91%.


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 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:49 am 
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Skyport323 has issued a repellent personal attack on Bro S1 and myself which is specifically forbidden in our rules and regs here. So what? Water off a duck's back and in any case, well answered by Bro S1. BTW, as he isn't flying the flag and thus not financially contributing here, this Newbie in effect stealing all this accumulated knowledge. Pot and the kettle, I call it. For the record, I am not a thief nor have I ever been one, and the money "borrowed" for my Lifetime dues was long since paid back before I ever contemplated strategic default. No institutions and certainly no individuals were hurt by my actions. Instead of spraying venom, you should stick to topics about which you have knowledge--this doesn't qualify. Anybody else got something to say on this issue, or can we close it out?

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 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:08 am 
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Webbew1 wrote:
LOL! I have a feeling our friend, Skyport might disagree with your assessment that you aren't abusing the system. Not to speak for him, but I'm guessing that in his eyes, you making the minimum payments on low interest loans and transferring balances back in the gay ol' 90's while doling out those minimum payments until the day you die.... then telling the lenders to take a hike on your death bed WAS and IS stealing. But what of it? That's the way the lenders set it up, so one might as well play them at their own game if they have the chops for it.


Well, since we're in personal Steven1 land, let's go on the record and note two of those cars were paid for. Typically, I never make a "minimum" payment. However, since I've gotten older and wiser and realized what a sham scam the banks have going, I am reducing payments so I can get me some when I need and/or want it. "Some" being a relative, all inclusive term that can be anything from a pay per view movie all the way to a RT ticket and hotel in Amsterdam.

Skyport needs to understand the banks INVITED me to take their money. One can't turn down every invitation in a civilized society or one won't be asked to the party(ies) at all. *shrug* And, remember, they're banking (to coin a phrase), I miss a payment so they can jack the interest rate as they please.....

As for the Will....yes.....it says right there, and I'll even quote it for you, word for word:

"I direct no unsecured debt in my name be paid one red cent. Those creditors can do just as I direct the tax people which is to go Phuck themselves and eat the debt. They’ll get over it."

Ahhhhhh......the benefit of transfer on death accounts; the benefit of transfer on death deeds; the benefit of beneficiaries. It's fun being me! :lol:

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- Aldous Huxley, Brave New World, Ch. 16


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 Post subject: Re: bad-debt collectors
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:27 am 
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JazzboCR wrote:
Skyport323 has issued a repellent personal attack on Bro S1 and myself which is specifically forbidden in our rules and regs here. So what? Water off a duck's back and in any case, well answered by Bro S1. BTW, as he isn't flying the flag and thus not financially contributing here, this Newbie in effect stealing all this accumulated knowledge. Pot and the kettle, I call it. For the record, I am not a thief nor have I ever been one, and the money "borrowed" for my Lifetime dues was long since paid back before I ever contemplated strategic default. No institutions and certainly no individuals were hurt by my actions. Instead of spraying venom, you should stick to topics about which you have knowledge--this doesn't qualify. Anybody else got something to say on this issue, or can we close it out?


Oh hell no....let the good times roll. This message board is all about fun. Skyport323's clownish understanding of how to handle money is amusing. His value laden decision making makes for good discussion material and might edumacate the youngins. I have no interest in whether people consider me moral, honest, deceitful, a thief, a rogue, a good Samaritan, whatever.... I do the best I can with what I have and as my long dead Daddy schooled me "Son, we don't spend in this family. WE COUNT.". Hated it as a K*D....love my daddy and his motto's "Boy, you want a millstone around your neck your entire life? If so, get a wife and have some K*ds....". No shit....my Dad schooled me. "Dad, am I am a millstone around your neck?" "Yes, son, you are. I love you. You're my 2nd born; I have 4 other Ch*ldren, your mother, three houses, two club memberships and still my life is over. You want that?" My Mom did not appreciate his perspective some times......

Remember what the Jefferson Airplane sang out oh so many years ago: In order to survive, we steal,
Cheat, lie, forge, Phuck, hide and deal. Gotta leave out the "young" part.....*shrug* :P :P :P :P :P :P 8) :lol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxA3Q96a8XE

I had a guy tell me two days ago when he had learned I "served" (not quite sure if that's the word I'd use...) in 'Nam that because of what I did I should never have to pay any sort of tax again; I should be first in line for the best health care available....my choice first.....bladda, bladda, bladda..... I think it may be car shopping week.....

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"Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the over-compensations for misery. And, of course, stability isn't nearly so spectacular as instability. And being contented has none of the glamour of a good fight against misfortune, none of the picturesqueness of a struggle with temptation, or a fatal overthrow by passion or doubt. Happiness is never grand."
- Aldous Huxley, Brave New World, Ch. 16


Last edited by Steven1 on Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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