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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:00 pm 
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Estebanh wrote:

I agree on changing immigration laws, but not for the poor immigrants. Let the countries of the world send their smartest and best educated. Its amazing that we dont let all of the foreign graduate students stay here when they graduate. These immigrants can and will have an immediate impact on our economy and pay for my social security.


Canada's immigration system used to be based on merit or how the immigrant will benefit the country. But then the Liberals decided this wasn't fair and now we welcome any illiterate criminal that has a pulse.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:14 pm 
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Firewell wrote:
JazzboCR wrote:

One major way to overcome these admitted deficiencies would be for the US to have a reasonable immigration policy. I don't see it happening but legal immigrants would lower the average reported age and provide much-needed legal taxable money to the US economy.


Actually, you could achieve this without changing a single law - you could simply ramp up the process rate for family visas. If you are an immigrant who obtains US citizenship, you can petition to bring siblings into the US. However, the wait time to get a visa for a sibling is in many cases 10-20 years.

Accelerating the family visa process has an added bonus: in order to bring a family member into the US, you need to show that you have sufficient resources to support them, and you are responsible for repaying the US government for social services consumed by that family member until they've worked for 40 quarters.

Thoughtful post by Bro Firewell and I agree. About that Social Security equation: If every dollar subject to the tax was taxed, we could cut the rates in 1/2 and be awash in Trust Fund money--currently only up to $114,000 is taxed--all earnings above that are not. And about "entitlements": it strictly and only means money or social benefits in the law, the Constitution or regulatory codes. The Bill of Rights is the most wide-spread entitlement and everybody's greatest benefit. Any other use of this word is a coded hijacking of it for some special purpose.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:25 am 
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JazzboCR wrote:
Estebanh wrote:
eastcoast wrote:
In the article Harry Dent predicts the DOW to 3300 as well


Read his latest book where he lays out his arguments that debt, entitlements and real estate bubbles plus aging demographics (baby boomers retiring), will devastate the US and European economies. Not saying he is right, but if he is, we are in deep do-do. Cash will be king.

One major way to overcome these admitted deficiencies would be for the US to have a reasonable immigration policy. I don't see it happening but legal immigrants would lower the average reported age and provide much-needed legal taxable money to the US economy. No, they wouldn't be taking any more jobs away from those who want them (previous waves of legal immigration sure didn't); they would be paid more and on a taxable basis for doing the sh!t jobs folks here don't want to do, and then over time, move up the economic ladder, again as previous immigrant groups have done. The US has a robust and growing economy (due in no small part to the present low commodity prices) and can easily absorb all whom the US deems fit to enter. Fear and hysteria should have no part of these discussions; rationality rules.

These low income immigrants... broadening the tax base doesn't do much to help the economy. Most don't pay much taxes and in most cases get refunds. The top earners still pay a majority of the taxes. The problem is most of these immigrants will end up getting entitlements. The entitlement issue has to be resolved first.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:17 am 
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JazzboCR wrote:
...The US has a robust and growing economy (due in no small part to the present low commodity prices) and can easily absorb all whom the US deems fit to enter. Fear and hysteria should have no part of these discussions; rationality rules.

But if Obama is allowed to grant amnesty to the illegals who are here, then there was no decision as to who was fit to enter.

Jazzbo, your reasoning strengthens the argument that the US needs to secure the borders first. That is the only way a decision can be made as to who is fit to enter.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:31 am 
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Again, with the gross misuse of the word "entitlements". It's being used as a coded way of saying the social and monetary benefits that go to the aged, the poor, the downtrodden. NO NO NO--it's everything that is codified in the law, court decisions and regulatory codes. The fact that ethanol can only be made at any kind of reasonable cost from a feed-stock, corn, is an "entitlement" to corn-growers and agribusinesses that process it. The fact that hedge fund managers are only taxed at 15% ("carried interest" rate) instead of the more rational 40% rate is an "entitlement".* The fact that sports team owners get municipalities to finance and build stadiums while they get all the revenue streams from such is an "entitlement". Also, all us lesser folk getting money spend it here--these other blokes ship it off to who knows where.

* This one perversion of the tax code by itself costs the IRS and thus us of something like $9 Billion a year.

The less said about the "Ring-fence around the US" idea, the better (you'd rather these folks died in the desert at the the tender mercies of coyotes within sight of the Promised Land? Really? 'Cuz that ring-fence is not gonna keep them from trying, only from succeeding) but if these immigrants were paid anything like a living wage when they hooked up with a job here, no government assistance would be necessary. There is no data anywhere showing immigrants, legal or otherwise, come here to suck on the sugar tit; on the contrary, they are some of the most energetic, productive folks in US society.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:36 am 
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And one more thing: The remittances these immigrant folks send home keep whole villages, even provinces alive--in a sense, they keep the home folks at home. Isn't that what you want?
As Ben Franklin said: "Those who trade freedom for security wind up having neither."

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:43 am 
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Back on topic: A stronger dollar obviously benefits us Bros and all who travel abroad but you don't want it to get too strong on a societal level--that makes imports cheaper, benefiting individual consumers and foreign makers, but makes exports that much more expensive, hurting producers/employers in the US. It's a delicate balance, everywhere forever.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:32 am 
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JazzboCR wrote:
Again, with the gross misuse of the word "entitlements". It's being used as a coded way of saying the social and monetary benefits that go to the aged, the poor, the downtrodden. NO NO NO--it's everything that is codified in the law, court decisions and regulatory codes. The fact that ethanol can only be made at any kind of reasonable cost from a feed-stock, corn, is an "entitlement" to corn-growers and agribusinesses that process it. The fact that hedge fund managers are only taxed at 15% ("carried interest" rate) instead of the more rational 40% rate is an "entitlement".* The fact that sports team owners get municipalities to finance and build stadiums while they get all the revenue streams from such is an "entitlement". Also, all us lesser folk getting money spend it here--these other blokes ship it off to who knows where.

* This one perversion of the tax code by itself costs the IRS and thus us of something like $9 Billion a year.

The less said about the "Ring-fence around the US" idea, the better (you'd rather these folks died in the desert at the the tender mercies of coyotes within sight of the Promised Land? Really? 'Cuz that ring-fence is not gonna keep them from trying, only from succeeding) but if these immigrants were paid anything like a living wage when they hooked up with a job here, no government assistance would be necessary. There is no data anywhere showing immigrants, legal or otherwise, come here to suck on the sugar tit; on the contrary, they are some of the most energetic, productive folks in US society.

I can guarantee you a lot of legal immigrants come here and "suck on the sugar tit." If the goverment gives a handout, they will be first in line. They work cash jobs and avoid taxes.. qualify for free healthcare.. Ch*ld tax credits (you end up getting a bigger refund than you pay out)...etc.. I'm not saying all are like this, but a lot are.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:19 pm 
More from Dent:

http://youtu.be/6vG4NQ_aWhU?list=UUDkLC ... axIAqkhjuQ


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:14 pm 
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Harry Dent has been wrong many times, his track record isn't all that good.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:53 am 
Cantwait wrote:
Harry Dent has been wrong many times, his track record isn't all that good.



I agree but he was right about the really big ones: The peak before the tech bubble burst, the meltdown in 2008. I take everything with a grain of salt, but I think everyone knows deep down inside that the debt and entitlements are a ticking time bomb. I would rather hear and consider his predictions than be an ostrich with my head buried in the sand. When everything blows up and you have cash, you can get rich.


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